Opinions Needed: Cold Calling

[Josh]

There seems to be a little debate on what should be considered a cold call. See this thread: viewtopic.php?f=16

Should cold call be calling a raise without having any prior money in the post (thus making it impossible for the blinds to cold call)? Should it just be calling any raise without first voluntarily putting money in the pot? Should it be calling any raise over a certain size (NL/PL)?

Feel free to discuss your choice.

[WhiteRider]

Firstly, your link doesn't work..

As well as 'cold called raise', PAH also has a 'called preflop raise' stat. So cold calling also means no-one else has yet called the raise - is this correct?

As far as whether the blinds can cold call, I don't really mind, but I think we need to be able to be able to filter both 'cold call' situations. The simplest way to do this may be to include the blinds in cold call situations, then if we don't want to include them we can also filter on 'not in the blinds'.

[bugsbunny]

A cold call implies that you have no money in the pot. full-stop. Anybody that says otherwise is flat out wrong and is mis-using the term. That being said:

1) The BB can [b8tl]never[/b8tl] cold-call a raise. He already has a full bet it. He can call 2 (or 3), but it's not a cold-call. And if he's only putting 1 bet in calling it a cold-call is just ludicrous.

2) The SB is a little trickier since he only has a 1/2 bet in. Because of this a SB call of a raise is often referred to as a semi-cold-call. If it was raised to 3 before it gets to him it's a closer argument, but technically it's still not a cold-call.

People that say that the cold-callpercentage is super small are correct. It should be. If you're cold-calling more often than .5% of the time (that's 1 in 200) you're almost certainly cold-calling too much. However you should be calling out of the blinds more often than that because you're investing less money. Obviously calls out of the SB should happen less than out of the BB.

In anlayzing situations you really have to look at the blinds differently than other hands, because you already have money invested. You also need to look at the SB differently than the BB. Mixing blind stats into cold-call numbers would completely mess up meaningful analysis ogf both of those sets of figures.

The same general principles hold in NL.

I can't comment on existing filter options yet, since I haven't gotten that far :) But being able to see how people treat the blinds in contrast to other positions can be very important information. You can often figure out how they treat blinds from things like "folded BB to steal" numbers. If they never fold to a steal they're almost always going to call a raise. If they handle steal raises appropriately then they more than likely play multi-player hands more or less correctly as well etc.

[Peligroso]

The link Josh meant to post is viewtopic.php?f=16&t=662

[APerfect10]

I need to discuss this with Josh but this is a fairly cut/dry issue and I am not sure where the problem lies.

A cold call is when the player has no money in the pot, whether voluntarily or involuntarily through a blind. That is the definition of "cold" which we will not change.

Best regards,

Derek

[Goomashroom]

[quote="WhiteRider"hom]Maybe when you update the filter funtionality 'Cold Called' could have an 'include blinds' option?[/quotehom]

I think this would make everyone happy


Edit: Or maybe a new filter, "Smooth call" would be better terminology here

[APerfect10]

For reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_poker_terms#C

Dave's definition in the other thread is correct and my assumption was wrong. This definition seems spot on after a little research.

Best regards,

Derek

[WhiteRider]

[quote="Goomashroom"wvl][quote="WhiteRider"wvl]Maybe when you update the filter funtionality 'Cold Called' could have an 'include blinds' option?[/quotewvl]
I think this would make everyone happy[/quotewvl]
FWIW, I agree with the comments that the Cold Call stat should only show those cases when you have no money the pot (regardless of whether it's a blind post or not), with the addition that no-one else has yet called the raise.

But I also think it's important to be able to filter on the case when you call a raise from the blinds, and I was just trying to suggest filter ideas that would give maximum flexibility, as there are a few different raise calling situations and different people will have times when they want to filter on different cases.

[quote="Goomashroom"wvl]Or maybe a new filter, "Smooth call" would be better terminology here[/quotewvl]
I'm not sure that 'smooth call' quite fits either - isn't a smooth call when you call a bet or raise in a situation where you'd usually [be expected to] raise? ..and regardless of the number of previous raises? Defining 'Smooth Call' as a stat would be even harder!

[obga]

i feel like cold calling should be you're the original pf raiser and you are 3 bet and you cold called..

[Goomashroom]

[quote6w5]I'm not sure that 'smooth call' quite fits either - isn't a smooth call when you call a bet or raise in a situation where you'd usually [be expected to] raise? ..and regardless of the number of previous raises? Defining 'Smooth Call' as a stat would be even harder![/quote6w5]

Lol okay maybe "Flat-call raise" is what I'm looking for... that or an option to include the blinds in "Cold call"