Error in 3bet_vs_steal__.pt3stat

[Oakrdrzfan]

I believe there is an error in this stat on the repository. The columns for the button portion include holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_steal_att but it should not incude this stat. That stat is used for a button that steals, not 3 bets a steal raiser

I don't know an easy way to include the button portion of 3 betting a stealer. I have them for sb and bb, but not button.

I have pm'd the stat originator.

[WhiteRider]

Yes, agreed. This is monarco's stat on page 2, yes?
Please let me know if you don't hear back to your PM within a couple of days, and I'll see about getting it fixed/removed.

It's a tricky one from the button.
It might be possible to do something with "holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos" but I'm not sure it's consistant enough - you may get different values of this based on later action I think.
Alternatively, you could do a calculation based on comparing the size of the raise you face as an absolute amount and a percentage of the pot. See this post which talks about a similar idea:
http://www.pokertracker.com/forum/viewt ... ade#p64124

I'll also mention this thread/issue to the developers, because I too would like an easier way of getting this kind of information.

[preparac]

I was going to post about the same issue. I think there are even 2 erroneus flgs in this stat
cnt_bu_3bet_steal =
sum(if[tourney_holdem_hand_player_statistics.position = 0 AND tourney_holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_steal_att AND tourney_holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_3bet_def_opp AND tourney_holdem_hand_player_statistics.enum_p_3bet_action='R' , 1 , 0 ])

i think we have 2 wrong conditions
1) "tourney_holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_steal_att" counts hands where the player was attempting a steal himself and
2) "tourney_holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_3bet_def_opp" counts hands where the player was facing a 3bet

Also in the denominator
cnt_bu_3bet_steal opp =
sum(if[tourney_holdem_hand_player_statistics.position = 0 AND tourney_holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_steal_att AND tourney_holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_3bet_def_opp, 1 , 0 ])
we have still thre wrong flg_steal_att boolean.

As I understand both have nothing to do with situations where the player is facing a steal atempt, but with situations where player attemted a steal from the button and after faced a 3Bet. "(cnt_bu_3bet_steal / cnt_bu_3bet_steal opp) * 100" dont give me the percentage of reraising a steal attempt from the buton but probably (I'm not so sure about the meaning of of enum_p_3bet_action='R' ) the percentage of cases where player reraised a 3Bet after his initial steal on the button. Right?

By the way: to make the Blind against Steal-Attemps stats ok it's important to rule out some double-count cases, for example when player first raises a steal atempt (or in the SB also when he first calls) and after folds to a 4Bet (or 3Bet from BB). This we can achive by puting checkers like holdem_hand_player_statistics.cnt_p_raise = 0, holdem_hand_player_statistics.cnt_p_call = 0

To be sure: The definition of "flg_blind_def_opp" only covers the cases where players in the Blindes face STEAL attemps (defined as openraises from CO, BU or SB)? It would be great we could include also other Steal-Attemps from other positions (i.e. Hijack) in this stat. Any idea how to do this? You think "holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos" would be useful for this (I never worked with this)?

[WhiteRider]

As I understand both have nothing to do with situations where the player is facing a steal atempt, but with situations where player attemted a steal from the button and after faced a 3Bet. "(cnt_bu_3bet_steal / cnt_bu_3bet_steal opp) * 100" dont give me the percentage of reraising a steal attempt from the buton but probably (I'm not so sure about the meaning of of enum_p_3bet_action='R' ) the percentage of cases where player reraised a 3Bet after his initial steal on the button. Right?

Correct - kind of.. enum_p_3bet_action is the action taken in response to a 3-bet in a particular hand; you would count up the times it was 'R' to work out the percentage.

By the way: to make the Blind against Steal-Attemps stats ok it's important to rule out some double-count cases, for example when player first raises a steal atempt (or in the SB also when he first calls) and after folds to a 4Bet (or 3Bet from BB). This we can achive by puting checkers like holdem_hand_player_statistics.cnt_p_raise = 0, holdem_hand_player_statistics.cnt_p_call = 0

You're right. The best way to get the first action a player makes is to use the lookup_actions_<street>.action DB field.
See this post: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=8028#p63120

To be sure: The definition of "flg_blind_def_opp" only covers the cases where players in the Blindes face STEAL attemps (defined as openraises from CO, BU or SB)?

Correct.

It would be great we could include also other Steal-Attemps from other positions (i.e. Hijack) in this stat. Any idea how to do this? You think "holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos" would be useful for this (I never worked with this)?

From other positions these aren't counted as steals, but open-raises are counted in the Raise First In stat: RFI.

If you mean that you want to know where you are facing a raise from if you are in the blinds: yes, that's the field you want, but be careful with it; I think it can have different values depending on further action, particularly if the selected player raises too.

[preparac]

ok, thanx, I will see when I can try to make it work

[Alexkidd103]

considering this post, it means that the only thing that don't work is in the button, but if i remove the button part, it works right?, say i do this on the static
(cnt_bb_steal_raise / cnt_steal_def_opp_bb) * 100 + (cnt_sb_steal_raise / cnt_steal_def_opp_sb) * 100) / 2

Instead of

((cnt_bu_3bet_steal / cnt_bu_3bet_steal_opp) * 100 + (cnt_bb_steal_raise / cnt_steal_def_opp_bb) * 100 + (cnt_sb_steal_raise / cnt_steal_def_opp_sb) * 100) / 3


****************
The following are the stats i would like to have
3bet in blinds when facing CO and BU raise -- Wich i think the last one i posted should work for this, Execpt that will include the NEXT stat, wich i don't want.

3bet in BB when facing SB steal-- don't have an idea how to do this since i would need to recognize the raise as a SB raise, and i don't know how to do that. I think that if i find how to do this i will be able to do the previous stat.

3 bet in BLINDS when facing UTG and HJ raise-- i think it can be done with the columns used in the stats i posted, just adding a few NOT in some colums (not facing a steal) so no problem with this i think

3bet not in blinds when facing UTG and HJ raise- same as the previoous stat, just adding a few NOT , but changing the positions

Is my reasoning ok?

I would also like a 3bet call for the previous stats. But that's even harder, since there is no way to specify from where you are facing the play.
For example i would like a stat , that reads "Call 3bet in UTG, when facing a BLINDS 3bet" But there is no way to specify that the 3bet came from the blinds
Also CALL 3bet in UTG when facing IP 3bettor (HJ, CO,BU) The same problem
This is important since the tendencies of players to call in position and out of position vary GREATLY and with reason, so, i think those stats would come really in handy to have in a popup.
do you think is possible to do with the actual pt3 state? or would we need an upgrade that allow us to specify from where the play we are facing comes?
It would be enough just determine if the 3bet comes from the blinds or not, that's all i need, but i don't see how to tell that.

[Alexkidd103]

i thought that it would be welcome to have a static that says, instead of facing steal, facing blinds, it would not only serve it's porpouse for 3betting, but you could put a NOT on that stat for example, when you want to separate the times a BB call a raise IP and OOP, you put from blinds true, and then the raise obviusly comes from the sb. I think this is very important, because the sb vs BB fights usually disturbes the numbers a lot.

[Oakrdrzfan]

Yes, agreed. This is monarco's stat on page 2, yes?
Please let me know if you don't hear back to your PM within a couple of days, and I'll see about getting it fixed/removed.

It's a tricky one from the button.
It might be possible to do something with "holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos" but I'm not sure it's consistant enough - you may get different values of this based on later action I think.
Alternatively, you could do a calculation based on comparing the size of the raise you face as an absolute amount and a percentage of the pot. See this post which talks about a similar idea:
http://www.pokertracker.com/forum/viewt ... ade#p64124

I'll also mention this thread/issue to the developers, because I too would like an easier way of getting this kind of information.

I have not heard from Monarco after sending a pm. you should remove the stat from the repository

[WhiteRider]

considering this post, it means that the only thing that don't work is in the button, but if i remove the button part, it works right?, say i do this on the static
(cnt_bb_steal_raise / cnt_steal_def_opp_bb) * 100 + (cnt_sb_steal_raise / cnt_steal_def_opp_sb) * 100) / 2

Instead of

((cnt_bu_3bet_steal / cnt_bu_3bet_steal_opp) * 100 + (cnt_bb_steal_raise / cnt_steal_def_opp_bb) * 100 + (cnt_sb_steal_raise / cnt_steal_def_opp_sb) * 100) / 3

That sounds reasonable, yes.

The following are the stats i would like to have
3bet in blinds when facing CO and BU raise -- Wich i think the last one i posted should work for this, Execpt that will include the NEXT stat, wich i don't want.

3bet in BB when facing SB steal-- don't have an idea how to do this since i would need to recognize the raise as a SB raise, and i don't know how to do that. I think that if i find how to do this i will be able to do the previous stat.

3 bet in BLINDS when facing UTG and HJ raise-- i think it can be done with the columns used in the stats i posted, just adding a few NOT in some colums (not facing a steal) so no problem with this i think

3bet not in blinds when facing UTG and HJ raise- same as the previoous stat, just adding a few NOT , but changing the positions

Is my reasoning ok?

I would also like a 3bet call for the previous stats. But that's even harder, since there is no way to specify from where you are facing the play.
For example i would like a stat , that reads "Call 3bet in UTG, when facing a BLINDS 3bet" But there is no way to specify that the 3bet came from the blinds
Also CALL 3bet in UTG when facing IP 3bettor (HJ, CO,BU) The same problem
This is important since the tendencies of players to call in position and out of position vary GREATLY and with reason, so, i think those stats would come really in handy to have in a popup.
do you think is possible to do with the actual pt3 state? or would we need an upgrade that allow us to specify from where the play we are facing comes?
It would be enough just determine if the 3bet comes from the blinds or not, that's all i need, but i don't see how to tell that.

This is the column I have which records how often the BB faces a steal raise from the SB.

sum(if[holdem_hand_player_statistics.position = 8 AND (holdem_hand_summary.cnt_players - holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos) = 1 AND holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_blind_def_opp,1,0])

However, I'm not absolutely sure that the 'holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos' field is consistant if the BB reraises. If the active player is the last raiser I think that field is -1, which complicates things.

See my post from above:

It might be possible to do something with "holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos" but I'm not sure it's consistant enough - you may get different values of this based on later action I think.
Alternatively, you could do a calculation based on comparing the size of the raise you face as an absolute amount and a percentage of the pot. See this post which talks about a similar idea:
http://www.pokertracker.com/forum/viewt ... ade#p64124

I'll also mention this thread/issue to the developers, because I too would like an easier way of getting this kind of information.

I agree that we could really do with additional info in the DB - I've suggested this before.

[k3ys3r]

the stat is still in the Repository.
it's a fixed version or the "old" one ?

ty