Response to 3bet in position / OOP

[stevi3p]

I want to create a new stat which shows how often a player raises, calls or folds in response to a preflop 3bet when in position, or out of position, relative to the 3bettor (I know how to get it by absolute position). But, as far as I can tell, there's no way of knowing the position of the 3bettor. There's a field val_p_raise_aggressor_pos but I believe this will only hold the position of the 3bettor when there's no 4bet. Is this right?

If so, is there any way of doing this? I don't think this is an issue, but I also want the reponse to a 3bet to count only if the player raised first in.

Thanks

[kraada]

Yes, val_p_raise_aggressor_pos only shows the position of the person who made the last raise, however I think you can work around this for the most part.

The key is that there's a flag: flg_f_has_position.

So I'd go for something like this:
when flg_p_3bet_def_opp is true (you faced a 3bet) and flg_p_first_raise and flg_p_open_opp are true (you raised first in), you can sum up the times that enum_p_3bet_action was F, C or R (fold, call, or raise respectively). For times when it's C you can test against flg_f_has_position to see if you are in position or not thus know if you were in position the whole time. For times it's R and there's a flop, you can perform the same test. For times it's F, you can check val_p_raise_aggressor_pos, as if you fold and the hand ends then he is the last aggressor and you can find your position relative to his.

The only cases I don't immediately see how to deal with are times you 4-bet and no flop is seen, or if things are multiway (squeeze spots, that sort of thing). This should get you most of the way there though and I'll make a note to look at it some more later and if I think of a way to deal with R/no-flop or multiway spots I'll let you know.

[stevi3p]

Thanks for thinking about this.

It's what to do if there's a 4bet that I was having trouble with. The difficulty is without being able to deal with this, I have an extremely biased statistic, since the % will only apply to the fold and call situations - so much so that the statistic is not of much use. Somebody calling a 4bet and seeing a flop is really rare, so that's not much use unfortunately. Multiway 3-bet pots are pretty rare and are less likely to cause a bias so I'm not so concerned with these (and I suspect there's a way round it, but I haven't really thought about it).

If you could have a further think about how to deal with 4bet pots when no flop is seen that would be really helpful.

This points to a general difficulty with using the custom stats is that it's not possible to refer to information from other players in the hand (e.g., stack sizes). If it would be possible to link tables in some way to allow this that would be very useful. An alternative is to give the user the option of creating extra columns in the database directly and for these to appear in the custom stats.

Thanks

[kraada]

Pulling information for Villian's stats becomes a very complicated query; I think there are plans for that sort of thing down the road but I don't think it's going to happen any time in the near future.

Back to the stat at hand: You can narrow down the cases also by looking for all-ins. If no flop is seen, and you go all in, the other guy must have folded. Conversely, if you folded to an all in, it must've been the last bet by that other guy. enum_face_allin and enum_face_allin_action contain info for facing all-ins and enum_allin = 'P' when you've gone all in preflop yourself.